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TEJA ANAND
Well, what if? Are “you” worried about wasting your ‘time?’
Have you noticed that people naturally gravitate towards whatever is their dominant path in life? Whether it’s their ‘spiritual’ beliefs & path, or their vocation? So why would anyone need ‘convincing?’ It’s either for you or not for you - your ‘dharma’ as some would say. If you need convincing, even a little, it’s definitely not your dharma, not for you.
And that’s fine. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, superior or more noble in a life seeking enlightenment then living out your entire life as one who has not realized the self apart from the ego-identity, and never will before you die.’
Why?
Because “you” are not the Doer/Decider. “You” are not even real. It’s just the One Singularity, Being, dreaming you and playing various roles that It deems, not “you,” through every dream-character in this illusion.
Which also answers your other questions:
Is enlightenment isn't just a mind trick or sort of a self-delusion?
Enlightenment has nothing to do with mind or any self-assessment/self-delusion. It is infinitely beyond both.
The reverse is true. Your mind and self image are what is tricking you into believing you are a limited, suffering separate self. And together they do an excellent job of deceiving you. So much so that, as you say, virtually every dream-character has yet to realize the self apart from the ego-identity. That’s Being’s Dream.
What if "pure consciousness" is just another thought from the mind itself.
It isn’t. If pure consciousness is merely another thought, what is watching that thought. “Who” or “what” is able to say, “I have thoughts, including one about ‘pure consciousness?” What is aware of that? Consciousness or Awareness cannot be a thought, because something is aware even when you have no thoughts. That means Consciousness or Awareness is actually the substratum, the empty space, in which all thoughts and self-beliefs arise.
If you need more verification, even modern neuroscience now confirm that thoughts & mind are separate from consciousness and occur well after the consciousness in which they can arise.
You either know that or you don’t. Or more accurately, the false “you” identity has either dissolved back into pure Being - direct annihilation, not just intellectual realization or ’seeing through the illusion’ - or “you” haven’t.
And doesn’t starting your question with “For those who are yet to realize the self apart from the ego-identity” indicate you already know there is a pure self or consciousness separate from the ego-mind?
But I won’t say anymore, because I wouldn’t want you to think I was trying to convince you.:-)
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RR QRA
“I have thoughts” is just another thought. The thing that sees the “awareness” or IS aware (of anything) could also be another thought only, just a non-descriptive thought (with no words or language attached to it), instead of a substrate on which thoughts exist. Just like the complex collection of thoughts becomes the “I” of an ego-identity, the most basic thought process of a wordless awareness could easily become the “pure consciousness” (a product of the mind only) that is experienced by an enlightened being.
Looking into the workings of my own mind, it seems to me that it is just thoughts all the way down. Even when I am able to stop thoughts from arising for a few moments, it is just a pause in thinking descriptively , there doesn't seem to be some underlying self or awareness that I can can discern as not being a thought. To me, it seems like consciousness itself is just thoughts, it might become non descriptive at times and be focused on the things in my surroundings instead of things far away in space and time, but it is thoughts none the less.
Unless, there is something else to differentiate it completely from a thought, something which I don't know because I haven't experienced it till now. I have no clue what it could be. Perhaps someone who has experienced it could throw some light on it.
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JMRG QRA
Just another comment from conciousness talking with itself…
Can you point the neuroscience source mentioned in your comment Teja? I've read “No self, no problem” and the conclusions seem different to what is expressed by dream character Teja. Everything's connected and interdependent. Conciousness may be just an illusion born from that interdependence (you can phrase it another way, if wanted).
People doesn't gravitate naturally towards anything, there's no dharma, it's only the mind playing tricks and wanting to see patrons and purpose, instead of only being. This dream character only sees karma (another patron).
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Editing…
“Is enlightenment isn't just a mind trick or sort of a self-delusion?
Enlightenment has nothing to do with mind or any self-assessment/self-delusion. It is infinitely beyond both.”
It's actually a valid point of view from rethorics/logic. Argument can be reversed just fine.
There's nothing superior, nothing worthy of denial, seems the right conclusion here.
“Something is aware even when you have no thoughts.”
Dream characters always have thoughts neurologically, cease of thoughts it's only a perception of the mind. It's understandable thinking that after some experiences, though.
“You either know that or you don’t. Or more accurately, the false “you” identity has either dissolved back into pure Being - direct annihilation, not just intellectual realization or ’seeing through the illusion’ - or “you” haven’t.’
That's only an experience (dissolution). Any position may be taken afterwards by the dreaming character, if it reforms, as all are intelectual takes out of that experience. Again, it's nonsense to deny things, all are valid. The experience just is, there's no need or purpose to discuss it. You may be saying the same with another words, not sure.
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TA
Can you point the neuroscience source mentioned in your comment Teja?
Currently, there are many such studies showing thought as separate from the Consciousness in which they arise, as well as many recent studies showing mind is ‘latent,’ i.e. when you think “you” are making a choice or decision in your thoughts, the movement towards that particular choice or decision already occurred before the thoughts about it. I don’t have links at hand, but you can find them as easily as me by doing a quick Google search.
I've read “No self, no problem” and the conclusions seem different to what is expressed by dream character Teja.
What is “No self, no problem?” Is that a book or essay you read? What in it was different from my expression?
Everything's connected and interdependent. Conciousness may be just an illusion born from that interdependence (you can phrase it another way, if wanted).
It depends at which ‘level’ you are speaking. You are not speaking far enough back, to the Absolute level. Yes, in the dream, everything is connected and interdependent. But what is the substratum behind ‘everything?’ Where did the ‘everything’ and its interdependence come from? And if you say “Conciousness may be just an illusion born from that interdependence,” you are not talking about that substratum, which always exists prior to the dream and anything that has ‘appeared’ and ‘appears’ to be arranged interdependently.
People doesn't gravitate naturally towards anything, there's no dharma, it's only the mind playing tricks and wanting to see patrons and purpose, instead of only being. This dream character only sees karma (another patron).
No. Once again, not far enough back, not the Absolute. At the Absolute level, there are no separate selves, only the singular Nothing appearing as Everything. Long before there is a ‘person’ and a mind that may play tricks and look for its own best expression or contribution to the dream (world,) it’s illusory choices and path have already been dreamed by that Absolute ‘dreamer.’ “We” cannot choose anything; indeed “we” have no control over what thoughts and mind-tricks will arise or not. “We” are authored illusions.
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